East Carolinian

Originally posted by

Matt

Your an idiot!

I think you might be the idiot. In the context of your sentence... you should have used "You're" ...rather than "Your" ...idiot.

i cant believe the editor actually let her publish this. its her kind of thinking that almost made Skip set sail to 'Cuse. he doesnt even get paid what he deserves. you think $500,000+ is a big salary for a D-I coach that beats VT, WVU, and brings home a conference championship? the other people are right, IDIOT!

Originally posted by

Lee

ROFL. This bitch is an idiot.

I think you are the idiot, my friend. You left a dumb as hell, rude comment with no explanation or counter opinion. I've read this writer's articles and she is clearly no idiot.

Originally posted by

Ryan

Lauren,

You make some very good points and I wish there was more money to go around to help out with supplies, teacher salaries, etc. Although our football team is ultimately the flagship of our great institution. It is vital to keep good coaches in place which will lead to victories and more national exposure for our great university. Trust me I know first hand volunteering for the Pirate Club. When the football team is winning, alumni stay more connected, donate more money, and student applications increase. This ultimately leads to more revenue and more money to be disbursed throughout the school. Go Pirates!!

Absolutely, and I agree with Brian too. Bottom line, a successful athletics program, particularly in football, makes your degree from ECU more valuable. That's just the way it is.

Originally posted by

Ryan

Bottom line, a successful athletics program, particularly in football, makes your degree from ECU more valuable!

How, specifically, does it do this?

Originally posted by

Ryan

Lauren,

You make some very good points and I wish there was more money to go around to help out with supplies, teacher salaries, etc. Although our football team is ultimately the flagship of our great institution. It is vital to keep good coaches in place which will lead to victories and more national exposure for our great university. Trust me I know first hand volunteering for the Pirate Club. When the football team is winning, alumni stay more connected, donate more money, and student applications increase. This ultimately leads to more revenue and more money to be disbursed throughout the school. Go Pirates!!

Go read about the history of ECU, particularly since about the mid-60's to present day. The driving force for what ECU has come to be today has been the football program, period. And like it or not, a successful athletics program, particularly in football and men's basketball, is the single best marketing tool a non-Ivy League university has at it's disposal. When we succeed on the football field, it leads to a more successful, better known, more respected East Carolina and that in turn makes your degree more valuable. Not to mention the positive effects the program has on Greenville as a whole. Without ECU as it exists in its present day form (which again, has been driven to this point by football), Greenville is just another podunk little farm town in Eastern North Carolina. But as it stands today, it is the biggest economic center in the eastern side of the state, save for probably Wilmington. ECU made Greenville, and a lot of folks have prospered and benefited from the school through the years, and a lot of that has had to do with the success of ECU football. And to be successful, it takes money. And trust me, if you think we waste money on football, out of reality. Go take a look at the athletics budgets of schools around the country and you'll find that ECU over the years has gotten a lot more bang for its buck than most schools in the country, in particular, those in-state schools west of here. Go read the ECU Memories pages and the interviews with our honorable former Chancellor, Dr. Leo Jenkins. The man was a visionary and understood what was best for East Carolina. The leadership we have in place today in the chancellor's office and athletics department understands as well.

Originally posted by

Brian

Athletics is a sense of pride and also a source of revenue.

It may be a source of pride, but it is definitely not a source of revenue. Our athletic program is a net money loser, as are the vast majority of those at other schools as well. The last set of statistics I saw established that a total of 6 schools across the entire NCAA have athletic programs that operate in the black. Every other one loses money, and must therefore be subsidized by the school in order to make up the difference (to the detriment of other programs - namely academics.)

So - here's my question: UNCC is rapidly approaching, and is on track to surpass, our student body size, yet it has no football program. Its students also don't pay exorbitant $350 per semester athletic fees, the largest part of which go towards subsidizing ... yup, you guessed it. The football program ... How is it possible that UNCC is growing faster than we are WITHOUT a football program?

The bottom line is that, if we're honest, we do not need a football program. Many people here simply want one, and are willing to engage in your sort of rationalization in order to justify it as being a benefit. That's fine as long as it can pay its own way, which it doesn't do and never has done, not from day one.

When it starts sucking money out of the academic programs that are the actual reason this place exists (it already does this) and starts forcing me to pay hundreds of dollars per semester for something I couldn't care any less about (I, and you, and every other student here already does), then we have a problem.

Did you know ECU had a football team before you enrolled? It was here long before you were and will remain here long after you leave. Perhaps you should look into transferring to UNC-W or UNC-C, otherwise you're pretty much pissing in the wind.

BTW, the Board of Trustees at UNC-Charlotte just last month voted to move forward with plans to establish a football program at the school.

Originally posted by

Hmm

And my personal pet bitch about them? They feel it necessary to charter special buses to ferry the entire GD team to the Greenville Hilton, before a HOME game, no less, and then charter buses to ferry them back to the game the next day.

Unless I'm mistaken, they shuttled the entire team to New Bern and put them up in a luxury hotel before the Halloween game just to get them out of Greenville. New Bern? Before a home game??

Please, for the love of God, explain to me why it is necessary to fork out buckets of money to transport the team to and from a Hilton, and pay for God knows how many rooms, before a GD home game?

Doing it for an out of town game I could maybe (and I stress maybe) understand, but they already have dorm rooms or apartments here in Greenville. They aren't living on the street, so why is it necessary to waste the school's money chartering buses and paying for hotel rooms for the entire football team and staff before every home game?

Bottom line? The program has some fk'ed up priorities and needs to get its purse strings jerked shut.

Another person that doesn't understand how it works. This is common practice at many schools and pro teams and has been the practice at ECU for decades. Simply put, this is part of the routine that gets the players ready for game day. It gets the team together, focused on what they need to do on Saturday, keeps them out of trouble, ensures they get to bed on time so they are rested properly for the game, etc etc.

Originally posted by

Hmm

Another person that doesn't understand how it works. This is common practice at many schools and pro teams and has been the practice at ECU for decades. Simply put, this is part of the routine that gets the players ready for game day. It gets the team together, focused on what they need to do on Saturday, keeps them out of trouble, ensures they get to bed on time so they are rested properly for the game, etc etc.

I understand exactly how it works. My point is this: if these people are incapable of controlling themselves or focusing on the task ahead of them without the expenditure of vast amounts of money on what can only be termed as luxuries, especially when the program funding those luxuries can't support itself and must therefore draw funding from the university (thereby harming academics), then we have a problem.

I understand as well that the fervor inherent in your support of the program is based on your status as a booster. You enjoy the program and therefore wish to see it continue, but you can hardly characterize your position as being anything but biased. One must therefore view your position with some degree of question.

The bottom line is that this is (or is supposed to be) a place devoted to academics. Athletics are, at best, an ancillary function. The value of my degree is established by the academic standards that it serves to represent, and its value is then, by necessity, only elevated if those standards improve. To suggest that it will be viewed with more weight because my school is successful on the playing field is at best misguided, and at worst a blatant lie springing from a biased defense of the indefensible.

My own opinion is that the program is fine, AS LONG AS it pays its own way. Students should not be held hostage to supporting it by being charged exorbitant athletic fees, and any funding it might receive from the university should only be approved AFTER every single academic need has been fully funded. The athletic department should also be required, as every other department is, to justify every request for funding with specific delineations of what the funding will be used for. The current situation, where they simply request a lump sum which gets blindly approved, should not be happening. Speaking frankly, as someone who is paying money into this place, I'd like to see a yearly audit published. I want to know exactly what my money is being spent on. Until that has been achieved, athletics shouldn't get a dime from the university.

This is, after all, a university, not a football team.

Originally posted by

Vanessa

Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't make it right.

And -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the football players are all adults, all grown men, right? Shouldn't they be able to get to bed on time without a chaperon?

I don't think you or anyone that has not played sports at the collegiate level understands the magnitude of what these kids (and I reiterate, KIDS) go through to play for and REPRESENT our school. They live completely different lives than any other type of student on campus and to keep it all straight, and to keep them successful both academically and athletically, everything is structured for them. Not to mention the enormous number of distractions that come at these guys every single day, kid or mature adult, it can be difficult to maintain discipline. The coaches can't afford to take that chance. Even with all the supervision, guys still screw up as evidenced by our suspensions this year. Plus, it's a two way streak. Athletics can bring positive or negative attention onto a university. When a regular student gets a drinking ticket or gets in a fight on Friday night, nobody notices. When a football player does it, it lands in the headlines across the state, and sometimes gets picked up nationally, as it did last year with Rob Kass' DUI. May seem like a waste of money, but it's just another investment that has been made in the interest of having a successful program, and successful student-athletes.

Originally posted by

Vanessa

Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't make it right.

And -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the football players are all adults, all grown men, right? Shouldn't they be able to get to bed on time without a chaperon?

Phil,

Don't you see how what you're saying completely supports the argument that football players are treated as though they're gods on campus and how this is incredibly unfair to the rest of the student body and the football players themselves? Have you ever been in a class with any of the football students? I've only met one who came to class on time and did all his work.
By giving special rights, privileges and grades to students on the football team, you undermine the point of going to a university in the first place. Nobody held guns to any of these kids heads and made them play football, they should be allowed to act like normal people and treated as such when they're not playing. Otherwise if, god forbid, they end up with an injury or not making it to the majors, they'll end up with absolutely no skills to make it in the real world.
Everybody in these comments treating the football team as if they're the ONLY thing making ECU a good school make me sick. Thanks for making the Med Students, future teachers and everybody else who do something in society other than playing a sport feel welcome.
And saying your degree is more valuable if the school has a good football team? Gee, if I'd know that I wouldn't have transferred to ECU for it's teaching program and just stayed at NC State. Lord knows a winning football team is all that matters at a school.

Originally posted by

Vanessa

Phil,

Don't you see how what you're saying completely supports the argument that football players are treated as though they're gods on campus and how this is incredibly unfair to the rest of the student body and the football players themselves?

.........I don't know about calling them "gods on campus" but they are absolutely special students. Those kids sacrifice quite a bit to wear that uniform and earn their scholarship. And if they don't meet their numerous commitments, they lose their scholarship. Many of the kids probably wouldn't be in college at all if not for football, but thanks to their athletic ability those kids get a chance to earn a degree too. What is unfair to them or you? Sounds like you should take your case up with the real God, the only thing that may be unfair is that they have the ability to play football at ECU and others don't. Even with the ability though, it takes a tremendous amount of work and sacrifice to have the opportunity to use that ability to represent our school and to earn a degree...................

Have you ever been in a class with any of the football students? I've only met one who came to class on time and did all his work.

...............I knew a lot of football players when I was in school and most of them were good about coming to class. I'm not there now and even if I was, would have no way to know what all the players are doing, but I do know that the athletic director and coaches put academics above all else, and number one is class attendance. They get reports on a weekly basis on who attends class and who doesn't, and if you don't go to class, you don't play. So the players you are referring to likely didn't make it, or our administration is lying to the boosters such as myself who donate money to our athletics department to pay for those scholarships. I don't believe that to be the case. When you have a large program, there will be kids that don't make it - just like the general student population. By the way, the graduation rate of the football program is much better than the general student body, so the players must be doing something academically. I think you are over-generalizing based on your limited observations....................

By giving special rights, privileges and grades to students on the football team, you undermine the point of going to a university in the first place.

.....................As far as special rights and privileges, could you expound on that statement? Not sure what you're referring to there. As for the grades, those are some serious accusations, if you have proof of those things going on, you need to report them to the administration so that they can be dealt with. Whether you have proof or not, this is not the forum to divulge that information .. it needs to be dealt with in private by the proper authorities if it is indeed going on, which I doubt. But if it is it needs to be addressed...................

Nobody held guns to any of these kids heads and made them play football, they should be allowed to act like normal people and treated as such when they're not playing. Otherwise if, god forbid, they end up with an injury or not making it to the majors, they'll end up with absolutely no skills to make it in the real world.

..................If they don't want to adhere to the rules of the program, they are welcome to leave and free up their scholarship. I could just as easily argue that the regimen they go through instills discipline that will serve them well later in life, just as those who serve in the military. You make it sound like because someone is managing their schedules that they'll be ill-equipped when they graduate to function in the real world. Most of the upper classmen have apartments, pay bills, live "normal" lives, etc, they just are on a strict schedule when it comes to school and football............................

Everybody in these comments treating the football team as if they're the ONLY thing making ECU a good school make me sick. Thanks for making the Med Students, future teachers and everybody else who do something in society other than playing a sport feel welcome.

........................I didn't mean to imply that at all. But if you read the history of the school, the Med school may not exist at all if not for the football program. Don't take my word for it, go read the history, it's out there for all to see. All I said is that football brings positive attention to the school. If you get an A on a math test, no one hears it. We beat #8 WVU, and the entire country hears it. Years from now, you're likely to run into someone in another state that says, hey I've heard of ECU .. they have a pretty good football team usually right? UNC-Charlotte grads won't ever hear that. What does it mean? Maybe not much, but maybe it opens a door for you that wasn't open before. It's also proven that in years following a good year in football which garnered alot of attention for the school, there is an influx of applications from higher qualified applicants for enrollment and employment to the school, which in turn raises the academic standing of the school..................

And saying your degree is more valuable if the school has a good football team? Gee, if I'd know that I wouldn't have transferred to ECU for it's teaching program and just stayed at NC State. Lord knows a winning football team is all that matters at a school.

...................It makes it more valuable because a résumé with East Carolina on it is more marketable when the athletic teams prosper than when they don't. BTW, it is highly debatable whether NC State has a better program than ECU, I think you made the right choice. A winning football is not all that matters at a school, but it is a high priority for sure, as it should be...................

nm

Originally posted by

jimbo327

Looking at hard dollars (ticket sales) might show a loss on the books for athletic teams, but it is the soft dollars (alumni contributions, pirate club, apparel sales, TV contracts, bowls) that make them profitable and their schools also.

This is incorrect. Even after factoring in all of those funding sources (including athletic fees involuntarily collected from the students, which you failed to mention), athletic programs in general, and ECU's specifically, still operate at a deficit and must therefore be supported by additional injections of funding from the university itself. This unavoidably results in less money being available for the true purpose of this place, which is academics.

Consider this: if you take the athletic fees that I, as a student, am forced to fork out every semester, to the tune of about $700 a year, and then divide that by the number of "free" tickets that I'm supposedly entitled to receive (as long as we're not talking about a game where the boosters override the students), I'm actually paying more than face value for every ticket that I might receive. Consider that I couldn't care less about football and therefore never utilize those tickets, and you should see why I might be a little bit ticked off at shelling out the money and then being told that my department is having to cut back and therefore can't afford to fund certain pieces of necessary equipment.

As I said, bottom line, the program is fine, but students should not be required to shell out a dime in fees to support it. Those students that do find it valuable can support the program by buying tickets, like everyone else. They'd actually be saving themselves money in the bargain. Likewise, the university should not be paying out a dime to the athletic department until every single academic department has its needs fully funded, and arguably not even then.

Let the program support itself solely through the money it can collect from those sources you mentioned, without taking a dime from the university itself, and I'll get on board. Until then, it's the enemy, sorry.